“Any stories to spice up a weird woman’s love life?” Naomi (Lynn Chen) asks Kris (Pooya Mohseni) over drinks in “See You Then,” a loaded question that comes across innocently enough when the former lovers are hoping to remain friends. It’s been years since they last saw each other, with Naomi now teaching at the university where the two had once been a couple and neither can be entirely happy with how life turned out when the professor of art would rather devote herself to her practice fully if she felt more supported in it and Kris, back in town for a tech conference, is still looking for a partner, having found peace of mind for herself in transitioning into a woman after college but feeling unsettled in nearly every other aspect of her life.
The two gabbing as girlfriends about recent dates Kris has been on was likely the last thing either would’ve ever anticipated, but it creates a fascinating air of mystery in Mari Walker’s seductive drama where there may be a deep history and intimacy between the one-time pair that emerges time and again in how easily they can relate to one another, but might as well be strangers with how much they’ve changed in the intervening years. In the sleepy town of Chandler, California, the two are able to walk around without being bothered by anyone as their conversation extends from a dinner date to the early morning hours, yet they have other things nagging at them with new questions arising about the end of their three-year romance after Kris transitioned Naomi appearing as if she’s lost some of the spark that once attracted Kris to her in the first place.
As rough as the conversation might get in “See You Then,” it unfolds elegantly in the twilight, anchored by the generous and heartfelt performances from Mohseni and Chen and the savvy structure Walker brings to the proceedings where the walls Naomi and Kris put up and pull back are reflected in the number of cuts in a scene and the attention they pay to one another is replicated in the camera’s intense and often loving gaze. The two may be walking around their old stomping grounds, but Walker makes it feel as if they’re striding towards somewhere new for the characters personally as within the genre where Richard Linklater’s “Before Sunrise” once blazed a trail and after premiering during the all-virtual SXSW last year, “See You Then” is now making its way out into the world both theatrically and on VOD. Recently, Walker spoke about packing big emotions into something that could be made on a modest scale, finding the exciting cinematic possibilities of a dialogue and working with Mohseni and Chen to infuse such liveliness into the film.
From what I understand, this grew out of a number of different impulses. How did this take shape?
I had written a number of scripts over the years and of course, being a young enterprising filmmaker, I thought, “I’m going to go make these.” But then every time we’d come back and look at the budget, it just far exceeded anything a first-time filmmaker could do, so I just kept on consolidating and making it smaller. I really sat down and thought it would be great to do this intimate character study between these two people. I’ve worked a lot in documentary and I really wanted to get to know how to work with actors, so the script manifested itself out of this deep desire to just tell a story that I really cared about that was intimate and could be done on a limited budget. I had a great opportunity to work with Kristen Uno, my producer and co-writer, and she brought so much to the characters as well.
With a two-hander like this where you have a co-writer, does it feel like you’re just talking out the script?
Yeah, it really was that way. I had written out an original draft that was about 45 pages, a template that we could start building off of that was missing some of the core elements of the story and one of the things that Kristen did that was really helpful for me is that she would have me read out the script with her, so I would often play Kris and then she would play Naomi. I hate hearing the sound of my own voice, so [I’d think], “I can’t do it again,” but it would really make me focus on the words because I’d think, “Will these sound authentic coming out of anyone’s mouth?” At the end of the writing period, we were getting to the final scene — the confrontation — and I started going off book and just improvising lines that I felt like Kris would be saying in the moment. I really got into it and I just started yelling at poor Kristen as the character of Kris and after that, she [said], “I think it’s ready to start sending out.” [laughs]
What stood out to me from a second viewing was this idea of Naomi being an artist who’s hit a wall. Was that always her occupation?
Yeah, I always envisioned Naomi as a performance artist. Lara Salmon, a dear friend of mine who’s our performance artist consultant lived out in Claremont when I was going through my formative years of transitioning and that location really evoked a lot of the feelings I had for “See You Then.” I always felt like what’s great about performance art in particular is that it’s such a physical art, but it’s also so abstract that it does pose the challenge of how do you create this accessibility within your own art. I thought there’s nothing worse than being somebody who wants to externalize everything in their life and all their feelings, but they feel trapped in a way they feel like they can’t and they can’t meet that expectation they set for themselves. I just thought that’d be really interesting to lay that in for her character to create some of the conflicts within her perception for how her and Kris [dealt with] that.
You’ve said Lynn wrote you this very impassioned letter during the casting process and Kris has made clear she had a very personal connection to the material. Did casting them change what you thought this could be?
Yeah, we had this really great rehearsal period for the film about a week before [filming] where I really had the ability to not focus on the logistics of how the film was being made, but Pooya and Lynn and Kristen and I all really sat down and went in depth about who these characters were. One of the things that they added that I thought was so wonderful was Pooya and Lynn built out this entire college history together as these characters and didn’t tell me about it. I started realizing there were all these little subsets of stories that they were building inside of their own heads as I was watching the takes when I was in post and all that homework they were doing to really hone these characters and find these little triggers [affected] why they were responding to a line in a certain way because of how that line was delivered. That added that dimensionality to it that great actors I think can always do and Pooya and Lynn are just the best, two of my favorite people on the planet.
And you shoot them so lovingly and I understand this large format Sony Venice camera was a big part of this. What attracted you to that format?
I felt like if we were going to tell this story and tell a story that was so small, I really wanted it to feel like a very intimate film, but on a very epic canvas. It was around the time that “If Beale Street Could Talk” came out and Jordan [Parrott, the cinematographer], Kristen and I were hanging out at my place and watched the trailer for the film and I was like, “Jordan, what is that?” And [he said], “Well, it’s this new type of digital large format that they’re working with” and he had recommended the Sony Venice and that was something he had worked with before, so he felt confident in how it looked. I really wanted to have this shallow depth of field because I felt there’s always this risk with conversation films in particular, two-handers to come off as theatrical and I wanted to make it this cinematic experience it could be.
In that week of rehearsals, did you walk this out with the actors around Chandler?
Yeah, we took Pooya and Lynn out to San Dimas, which was where we filmed Chandler for a day of rehearsals and our associate producer Prabhu KT was so great, helping. We were filming from multiple angles with iPhones and iPads, just so I could bring it back home and listen to it [thinking], “What are the cadences? What is the timing for all of it?” Putting them in that environment really helped a lot. They also went to LACMA together to see some art and talk about what they might be talking about in college and then we tried to get at least the crew and some of the cast out to certain locations beforehand so that we could become acquainted with the environment.
Something that was really important was [how] I kept on hearing this tale that directors tend to show up later on the call time than the rest of the crew, [which] I find very baffling because I think that’s my time to sit there in that environment and really absorb it as a director [wondering], “Okay, what are the angles here? What are the issues and the problem areas? And where can we shoot and when can we shoot?” It really gives me time during the day to work on all that, so all those things combined with the work that Pooya and Lynn were doing really grounded the film in that reality.
There’s a real elegance to the editing in how it conveys the flow of conversation – there are more cuts when Kris and Naomi hit rough patches and more fluid takes when it’s easy between them. How strongly was that in mind before shooting?
I’m definitely a director who thinks about the edit as the film is being shot and I really spent most of my time in Los Angeles editing features and shorts, so Jordan and I very extensively shot-listed the film, and because of that prep work, it allowed for more room to expand and experiment, particularly for the performances. One of the great opportunities as I was going into post was to really be able to look at a lot of these takes and they were varied, not in an archetypal cartoonish kind of way, but a lot of nuances that shifted up and down between the takes. That was my opportunity to go in and massage them and one of the things that’s really important in post-production is not to look at a take holistically, but to also look at it in terms of where you can stretch out a moment of time, where can you slow it down for a fraction of a second to add a beat or where can you take one line from take three and put it under the visuals of take seven and it creates that even better take. That time I had during the pandemic [made it] painterly in the way I was really able to spend the time crafting these moments in time within the film itself and that really was important because it is so conversation-based.
You actually gave yourself the luxury of shooting chronologically – did you feel like you were actually reaping the benefits of that?
Oh absolutely. There’s that delicate balance between actors and director and producers and writers that starts to take shape in those first few days of filming and we were really lucky [to have] those first few moments when Kris and Naomi meet at the restaurant, and take that energy that was already just on set and just getting used to the rigors of dealing with one another. Then by the second week, we had this crazy schedule where the shoot started at 3 am and finished at 3 pm. It was just these terrible, terrible hours and I felt so bad, but it also made everyone a little goofy and that’s when we shot the bar [scenes], so it was great because we had all this fun energy to take into that space and really lead us through the middle of the film, allowing those relationships to really blossom, [which] really helped us fall down into that heavier moments that happen towards the end of the film. It was a really great blessing and I hope I get the opportunity to do it again on a few films.
I hope you get to do it again soon as well – I know this probably didn’t go out into the world as you might’ve expected, but what’s it like getting it out there?
It’s been such an interesting experience. Those first few months of really doing everything online, I think directors, in particular, feed off the energy and you get excited at the emotional reaction and you hear the highs and lows and what works and what doesn’t and not having the opportunity to do that during the pandemic was really scary, especially because it’s long play on character piece. But what made the online experience really special was that Pooya and Lynn brought such a depth to these characters, it helps to spend time thinking about it and when we would do these online interactions, they felt very deep and very thoughtful. [Typically] when you’re reacting to a film as you walk out of a theater and you see the director, you’re still processing and a little shell-shocked. When I meet directors, [I usually say] “Oh, it’s great to meet you” — I don’t really spend the time to really think about what I really want to say about the film and having that [thoughtful response] is really something I cherish a lot because your first film, as our producer Matt Miller likes to say, can feel like a wedding. It’s a big blur, so having these very specific moments is really lovely. Then being able to see it in a theater was really exciting. There weren’t as many people there as there might’ve been normally at many of these festivals, but it was still really special and I’m really grateful that we were just able to get it out in general. There’s so many films that are made and don’t even have that opportunity, so I consider myself extremely fortunate.
Is it true after you finished the production, an ex actually got in touch to meet up?
It was pretty funny. I might’ve made it up in my own mind, but I swear it was five minutes after I sent one of my big e-mails for the film, like “We’re making it happen,” and I get a text from my ex and she’s like, ‘Hey, I’m coming into town. I want to meet up. Do you want to have dinner?’” And I’m like, [gasps]. But we had the loveliest time and she’s an amazing person. And she went and saw [the film], which was lovely, and after, she’s like, “Nothing like that happened [right?] We’re all good, like we didn’t…?” And I’m like, “No, it’s all just made up. It’s all just a story.” [laughs] But I appreciated the support and it is that thing of art imitating life and life imitating art. It goes hand in hand so often that it becomes funny.
“See You Then” opens on April 1st in Los Angeles at the Laemmle Glendale and will be available on DVD, VOD, iTunes, Prime Video, Google Play and Vimeo on April 19th.
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