When Andrew Theodorakis first had the seed for what would become “The Sixth Borough,” he knew just how huge a subject hip-hop in his hood of Long Island was, but what he probably couldn’t anticipate was how he ended up following in the footsteps of the artists he idolized such as Eric B. and Rakim, Public Enemy and De La Soul as the momentum around the project started taking on a momentum of its own, much like the scene that inspired it.
“I was shooting music videos for a lot of hip-hop artists and I had the idea for the documentary and put together a little sizzle reel, which got the attention of Julian [Petty, my co-porducer] and then we put together something that got the attention of Jason [Pollard, the director], so it kept just getting bigger and bigger and bigger,” says Theodorakis.
Matching the sound that came from New York City suburbs, “The Sixth Borough” becomes a propulsive history of the unusual hotbed for creativity as Grandmaster Flash in the early 1980s started to make waves in midtown but the mixtapes would start to make their way out to Amityville and North Hempstead, coming to inspire the likes of Chuck D., Method Man and Biz Markie. Although far from the streets that rap has long been associated with, Theodorakis, Petty and Pollard present an area fertile for sick beats and fierce rhymes when as Parrish Smith of EMPD recalls, a mix of Black, West Indian and Jamaican communities started to blend on the outskirts, though the boon to musical innovation was unfortunately tied to being driven out of the city where the segregationist practice of redlining may have been outlawed, but continued in spirit.
“The Sixth Borough” tracks the outsized cultural impact that the local groups had on the grander world once Rick Rubin, a Long Island native, started Def Jam out of his NYU dorm and reached back to sign Public Enemy, but Pollard, Theodorakis and Petty take great care to show how diverse a movement it was within such a small parcel of land as Bill Stepheney used his perch as a deejay on the college radio station for Adelphi University spread around what everyone was up to on the airwaves and various acts could spark one another’s imagination or gain confidence in themselves from hearing their voices amplified. Fittingly, the volume couldn’t have been cranked up much louder for the film’s recent premiere at Tribeca where it brought the house down and while recovering the morning after from the lively evening, the team behind the joyous celebration of Long Island hip-hop graciously took a moment to talk about what went into making an exuberant record of their own, honoring the music and the artists that made it as well as offering an all-too-rare glimpse of Black suburban life to cherish.
Jason Pollard: It’s hip hop, man. A lot of the guys we interviewed were from the era of hip hop where I was growing up in the ‘80s and ‘90s. I really loved listening to all these guys’ albums — De La, Public Enemy and EPMD, and even though I’ve seen the film multiple times [now], I’m still excited every time I hear “It’s My Thing” or “You’re a Customer,” or “Fight the Power” or “My Melody.” Everybody’s head was nodding in the theater last night [at the premiere], so when [Andrew and Julian] asked if I was interested, “Of course I was.” I’m just really fortunate.
Did you actually plan to structure this around the groups that were just mentioned or did they become natural pillars for this sprawling scene?
Julian Petty: I don’t think that was the original intent. We were doing a sizzle and I’ll call it a sizzle part two, but if you think about the Mount Rushmore of Long Island hip hop, it is Public Enemy, De La Soul, EPMD and Rakim, so to have them as the the pillars, it was a great structure there that we still were able to weave in the childhood stories and and touched on a lot of other figures from from the space. It was just a natural progression.
What was it like going about unearthing all this rare archival material? One of the best scenes in the film is a sound engineer simply taking out a photo from back in the day.
Jason Pollard: That’s the best thing about doc filmmaking is finding all these archival gems. I know Julian and Andrew really asked the guys to pull out some of their stuff and what they came back with was really eye opening and just really fun. That scene you’re talking about, our producer Katie Taber probably just said “Just bring some stuff [to the shoot],” and luckily, Charlie brought those great photos. Then we were just trying to make a scene out of it rather than just putting the photos on the screen. Chuck D sent us some of his early illustrations, which was fantastic, too — all this stuff he did in college, so it was all great.
Julian Petty: Once we found the lacrosse stuff, I was adamant about we have to keep it and it connects so much to Method Man.
Jason Pollard: Yeah, that lacrosse stuff was fantastic because I didn’t know Method played lacrosse in Hempstead, so finding footage to really complement that was was a real find.
Julian Petty: There’s another piece when Mase [aka Vincent Mason of De La Soul] is talking about a certain area in Amityville and we got some great archival footage from that time in the block. That was like a gem I didn’t even know it existed.
Was there anything that took this in a direction you didn’t expect?
Jason Pollard: I always tell people the migration element is always the most surprising to me. You realize it, but you don’t really think about it in terms of what Chuck D says when he talks about the black belts [that segregate the parts of Long Island along racial lines]. That’s always the most fascinating part to me about the film and the most interesting because that’s brand new information – how all of these people’s families were funneled to certain locations in Long Island, and then forming these great and vibrant communities.
Julian Petty: I grew up mainly in North Amityville and bounced around in Wyandanch for a little bit and I didn’t know why these communities were the way they were. When I lived in North Amityville, it was like 90 percent black and I didn’t know that was intentional. That was shady real estate agents. That was redlining. I didn’t know that. I just thought, “Hey, it’s where we live,” so for us to really delve into that and put that on the screen was really important and it was it was a surprise to me as well.
Andrew Theodorakis: We also had already interviewed De La, but we went back and interviewed them again at the high school and took them to the park. That’s when we got that really emotional scene at the end, and it was like this unexpected “holy shit” kind of a moment.
Part of that is because it was after Trugoy the Dove’s passing and you realize just how many of these legends we’ve lost recently when you run a tribute at the end. Did you feel like you were in a race against time in a way making this?
Andrew Theodorakis: I think three or four of them passed that we interviewed since the starting of making it. Grand Daddy I.U., Biz Markie, Dave [a.k.a. Trugoy the Dove of De La Soul], so that’s three right there off the top of my head.
Julian Petty: Alvin Toney.
Andrew Theodorakis: Yeah, I think it’s a tough life for a lot of these guys, and the longevity of some of these guys should have been longer.
This may have come naturally, but a great part of is showing suburban Black life and disassociating hip hop from the typical label “urban music.” Were you conscious of telling a story that was in contrast to such a dominant cultural narrative?
Jason Pollard: You always want to be conscious of it, and trying not fall into stereotypes and to reveal new aspects about hip hop music and culture. You always want to show another side to it, so it’s not just as you’re saying, “urban music” or stereotypically gangster music. It’s this super creative genre that is inclusive of so many people and so many different backgrounds and [we set out to show] how does all this coalesce and flourish? Each one of these artists, not just in Long Island, but across the country and across the world, can put their own individual creative stamp on this art form. That’s always fascinating to me and always something all of us are trying to highlight when we do this stuff.
Andrew Theodorakis: Chuck [says in the film], too, it’s not like they were rich because they were from there. It’s not an urban and suburban [class difference]. They still they might have had a lawn and a house that was a little bit bigger, but that didn’t mean that it was that much easier of a life growing up. They certainly had better school systems, but I think you’re right. The narrative of it has to just be “urban” and that isn’t always true in hip hop.
Jason alluded to it earlier, but the needle drops are so much fun. Were there any you were particularly excited about?
Julian Petty: Jason, I want this one. [laughs] We cut from the White Castle scene to Chuck and J.V.C. Force’s “Strong Island” plays and I lost it. I was in the theater. I hit a few people. That is my favorite.
Jason Pollard: I mean, that one hit. The mix was sounded so good last night, and Mike, the sound mixer, did a fantastic job. Everybody had notes [when we were doing the mix]. My note was just to make it loud, man. Just make it bump. And you felt it. I felt it last night at the screening. I like that section, too, because that’s a sick beat even now, but my personal favorite is a Just-Ice song “Going Way Back.” Our editor Ben did such a great job. I’ve told him multiple times, and I told him again last night after the screening in the elevator, “There’s this lyric, ‘Soft like butter, creamy like a puff,’” and it works so well to be in the lyrics at the right point. I love it every time and I’ve seen that sequence a million times.
What was last night like for you as a whole?
Andrew Theodorakis: It almost felt like a wedding kind of a vibe when everyone got there. It was a lot of hugs, a lot of people who haven’t seen each other for a while, and people from your past, so it was cool to get everyone in one room like that for this.
Julian Petty: Dang, it was surreal. It was really great. We had our daughters there, which was amazing and it was like a history lesson to them, like “This is where your dad is from.” For me, that that was really important and running into old friends from from high school and even junior high was really nice.
Jason Pollard: It was really exciting last night, and it was surreal seeing a packed house and people really enjoying the film, which is always great, and then De La and other L.I. artists performing. It was a really fantastic time.
Julian Petty: My involvement started from a Facebook message, so to go from there to actually seeing this thing on on screen, you can’t even put it into words, and seeing the legends backstage were great. De La were so gracious. Parrish Smith, Prince Paul, Bill Stepheny, Harry Allen — these are people that created culture — and to be able to give them their flowers was amazing.
“The Sixth Borough” does not yet have U.S. distribution.